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caller: looking at the fiscal cliff, we go back to 2001 with the lowering of the tax rates, meant to create jobs. but in the past 10 or 11 years, we have not had any job creation whatsoever. we keep going back and hearing over and over again that it's going to cost jobs. we do not have jobs to begin with. businesses are out to make money. if consumers do not have money to spend, then you can lower their taxes to 0%. they still cannot spend because they do not have any income. guest: i think that is a great point. it brings up one thing we have not mentioned yet. the payroll tax cut is about to expire. if that expires, every paycheck in the country is going to go down about $1,000 on january 1st. that would hurt consumption. it would hurt the customers of businesses. the president has proposed to extend that. i think that is reasonable. we will see a firm public and keep up their opposition or they give in. we have a sleeper here that cannot be ignored. if we do not extend that, every paycheck in the country is going to go down. guest: i agree. we should extend that for another year.
caller: looking at the fiscal cliff, we go back to 2001 with the lowering of the tax rates, meant to create jobs. but in the past 10 or 11 years, we have not had any job creation whatsoever. we keep going back and hearing over and over again that it's going to cost jobs. we do not have jobs to begin with. businesses are out to make money. if consumers do not have money to spend, then you can lower their taxes to 0%. they still cannot spend because they do not have any income. guest: i think...
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cliff expire, go down the fiscal cliff for tax rates, and adjust the taxes for the 98% through the rebate process. and this could be available for anyone, any president. let the bush tax rates apply as a ceiling, and then apply the rebate process to control the 98%. host: why do you propose that? what is the advantage in your view? caller: because the executive branch, the president, whoever it is, would have the ability to adjust the tax effectively for anyone who falls below the clintons' ceiling, and they could do this anytime. there would not have to go back to congress. -- they would not have to go back to congress. guest: it is true that technically the administration can do some things without even the congress's approval, but it would not be a lasting solution. let's say you could freeze the amount of withholding that you pay three paycheck at the level it was this year, for the 98%, and increase withholdings for everyone else as the law would dictate if you read over the cliff. -- went over the cliff. but the 98%, if they did not actually pass a law to extend the tax cuts for tha
cliff expire, go down the fiscal cliff for tax rates, and adjust the taxes for the 98% through the rebate process. and this could be available for anyone, any president. let the bush tax rates apply as a ceiling, and then apply the rebate process to control the 98%. host: why do you propose that? what is the advantage in your view? caller: because the executive branch, the president, whoever it is, would have the ability to adjust the tax effectively for anyone who falls below the clintons'...
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cliff in order to raise a tax rate to 39.6%. does that make any sense to you? are you shocked, surprised? >> well, i guess i'm not surprised given we're in the early stages of the discussion, but for the economists and forecasters out there calling this is the fiscal slope, not a cliff or believe it's worthwhile to go over the cliff, it's not the case. it is, without a doubt, a cliff. it's $600 billion. the economy cannot withstand that shock. it's slowing in anticipation. lou: $6 billion in taxes? >> spending reductions and tax increases. the economy can't handle that. without a doubt, head into recession if we're over the cliff. lou: now, are you in agreement? >> i am, carl's absolely right, nevertheless, the markets have effectively been yawning. equity markets, go higher, corporate credit market improves, commodit prices rising, and the ten-year treasury yield is dipping to new lows. i can't figure this out. everybody seems to -- lou: i know -- >> they are in a mood, and that worries me. somebody has to be wrong, and big tim
cliff in order to raise a tax rate to 39.6%. does that make any sense to you? are you shocked, surprised? >> well, i guess i'm not surprised given we're in the early stages of the discussion, but for the economists and forecasters out there calling this is the fiscal slope, not a cliff or believe it's worthwhile to go over the cliff, it's not the case. it is, without a doubt, a cliff. it's $600 billion. the economy cannot withstand that shock. it's slowing in anticipation. lou: $6 billion...
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. >> with no breakthrough today, fiscal cliff negotiations, could this be a starting pot? "outfront" republican congressman james lankford of oklahoma, incoming chairman of the republican policy committee, the fifth ranking position in the house gop leadership. appreciate you're taking the time. what about this idea of racinin taxes on everyone? the math works much better. >> i heard your lead in when you said this is a new idea. actually, it's not a new idea, there are several democrats who have floated that for a while. the code word is we want to go back to the clinton tax rates and talk about the clinton economy that we had a much more vigorous economy and growth and we should go back to the clinton tax rates. what that really means is all tax rates on all americans go back up because the tax rates were brought down in 2001 and 2003. i don't support that. i don't think that's a great idea. it would slow down the economy. >> when you look at economist's evaluations, it would slouw dow the economy. it would. there's no question about it. but if the problem is that we hav
. >> with no breakthrough today, fiscal cliff negotiations, could this be a starting pot? "outfront" republican congressman james lankford of oklahoma, incoming chairman of the republican policy committee, the fifth ranking position in the house gop leadership. appreciate you're taking the time. what about this idea of racinin taxes on everyone? the math works much better. >> i heard your lead in when you said this is a new idea. actually, it's not a new idea, there are...
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going off that fiscal cliff. to this point most of the conversation has been focused on what happens in january, and for good reason. there's no deal in congress. tax rates go up for a lot of folks, all americans. and a $1.2 trillion worth of defense and spending cuts will be automatically enacted. excuse me, that fiscal cough i told you about. the alternative minimum tax kicks in and put it all together and the results are pretty. the economy would contract by half a percent in 2013. unemployment would raise to 9.1% and the economy would experience what cbo said would be judged as a recession. but after that, then things start to look pretty good. the cbo says after next year by the agency's estimates economic growth will pick up. the labor market will strengthen returning output to its potential level. 5.5% by 2018. essentially if no deal is struck, the federal government would be forced to do what it's refused to do willingly, make dramatic changes in taxes and spending. if those changes happen automatically,
going off that fiscal cliff. to this point most of the conversation has been focused on what happens in january, and for good reason. there's no deal in congress. tax rates go up for a lot of folks, all americans. and a $1.2 trillion worth of defense and spending cuts will be automatically enacted. excuse me, that fiscal cough i told you about. the alternative minimum tax kicks in and put it all together and the results are pretty. the economy would contract by half a percent in 2013....
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i think that the president wants to go over the fiscal cliff, he wants all of the tax rates to go up, he needs that revenue, and more important we know he is not going to get blamed. the madial protect him -- media will protect him. the other thing, this president, for a long time has talked about a balanced approach to deficit reduction, we assumed revenue on the table and spending cuts, but only conversation we're having is tax increases, there is no conversation about spending cuts. >> in january 2010, said he wanted to tap into entitlement reform, we have to look at entitlement. neil: steve quickly, one thing you are not looking at on the timeline, you think that markets will not have a voice in what happens, i saw, always, stay tuned. >> we'll see. lou: right, steve murphy thank you. and. >> thank you. lou: mont monica rowley, what e bleepp >> i know. for your comments. republicans seem to be folding like cheap suits in the fiscal negotiations. it just seems that way, doesn't it it does however seem that w way. ja
i think that the president wants to go over the fiscal cliff, he wants all of the tax rates to go up, he needs that revenue, and more important we know he is not going to get blamed. the madial protect him -- media will protect him. the other thing, this president, for a long time has talked about a balanced approach to deficit reduction, we assumed revenue on the table and spending cuts, but only conversation we're having is tax increases, there is no conversation about spending cuts. >>...
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we'll go back to the fiscal cliff. if high end tax rates are successful entrepreneurs rocket higher, you can bet the number of millionaires in this country is going south. that's if high taxes go up. millionaires go down. that's no good. in our land of opportunity, i want more millionaires. and i think the better for them and the economy. robert frank will join us with some very arresting numbers. high tax, fewer millionaires. not good. two years ago, the people of bp made a commitment to the gulf. bp has paid over twenty-three billion dollars to help those affected and to cover cleanup costs. today, the beaches and gulf are open, and many areas are reporting their best tourism seasons in years. and bp's also committed to america. we support nearly 250,000 jobs and invest more here than anywhere else. we're working to fuel america for generations to come. our commitment has never been stronger. >>> 28 days until the country plummets off the tax and fiscal cliff. big tax hikes could be coming for everyone but we see als
we'll go back to the fiscal cliff. if high end tax rates are successful entrepreneurs rocket higher, you can bet the number of millionaires in this country is going south. that's if high taxes go up. millionaires go down. that's no good. in our land of opportunity, i want more millionaires. and i think the better for them and the economy. robert frank will join us with some very arresting numbers. high tax, fewer millionaires. not good. two years ago, the people of bp made a commitment to the...
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. >> and don luskin, is it better to own bonds during this fiscal cliff tiff? >> yes, december is the time to be risk off folks. the market's in complete denial. total complacency. the fiscal cliff will create a crisis like the debt ceiling negotiation did that led to the bottom 16 months ago. going to be another buying opportunity. but stocks will be significantly lower. by the way that's what creates buying opportunities. but face it it's going to happen. >> jim la camp, will the stock market vigilantes be necessary to get an agreement in washington? >> i think we're going to see more volatility. >> don and jim, thanks very much. >>> up next why the biggest headache right now for a baseball general manager might just be taxes and the fiscal cliff. don't tell me taxes don't matter. it even affects baseball all next on "kudlow." >>> dominos have a problem with obama care. they claim it forces them to post signs with nutritional information on every product. domino's says it's done the math. there are 34 million possible combinations costing thousands of dollars
. >> and don luskin, is it better to own bonds during this fiscal cliff tiff? >> yes, december is the time to be risk off folks. the market's in complete denial. total complacency. the fiscal cliff will create a crisis like the debt ceiling negotiation did that led to the bottom 16 months ago. going to be another buying opportunity. but stocks will be significantly lower. by the way that's what creates buying opportunities. but face it it's going to happen. >> jim la camp,...
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cliff unless you raise tax rates on the rich, very important, tax rates on the rich. what do you make of that? >> well, first of all, in some ways, you have to say that the big spending, big government liberals are winning this debate, because they have reframed the entire discussion about revenues. listen, washington has a spending problem, and as long as we kind of misdirect this discussion and we only talk about taxes, then we never discuss any meaningful reform in entitlements. we never discuss spending. so from this standpoint, the left is absolutely winning this argument, because that's what you and i are talking about right now, tax revenue. there is not a revenue story. -- this is not a revenue story. it is a spending story. >> thank you, you are right sir, yet again. thank you very much indeed. let's bring in kirsten powers. she joins us from washington. kirsten, welcome to the program. i don't think you have been on before, have you? >> good morning, i don't think so. though i've always wanted to be invited. stuart: okay. i watch you all the time, and i dete
cliff unless you raise tax rates on the rich, very important, tax rates on the rich. what do you make of that? >> well, first of all, in some ways, you have to say that the big spending, big government liberals are winning this debate, because they have reframed the entire discussion about revenues. listen, washington has a spending problem, and as long as we kind of misdirect this discussion and we only talk about taxes, then we never discuss any meaningful reform in entitlements. we...
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on the fiscal cliff. judge andrew napolitano. fox news senior judicial analyst. juan williams, columnist with tannehill. byron york from the "washington examiner." judge, what do you make of this? we had back and forth and we talk about this every day. every day there are developments. >> the president insistence on raising tax rate is reprehensible and violates economics 101. raising tax rates will not necessarily produce more revenue. the president is more interested to punish the rich and perceived reward for base. doesn't put more money in the federal treasury. the republicans give in to this in spirit of compromise, i respect alan simpson. but this is a time for the republicans to say no to spending no, borrowing. no to taxes. do you any any republicans sent to congress to facilitate the president spending to us oblivion? they no. or they will be sent home. >> president feels like he was elected on a campaign where he mentioned on the stump many times, raising tax rates. >> i understand that. >> but under our system the congress writes the law and president
on the fiscal cliff. judge andrew napolitano. fox news senior judicial analyst. juan williams, columnist with tannehill. byron york from the "washington examiner." judge, what do you make of this? we had back and forth and we talk about this every day. every day there are developments. >> the president insistence on raising tax rate is reprehensible and violates economics 101. raising tax rates will not necessarily produce more revenue. the president is more interested to punish...
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cliff deal. grover, the first question i have for you is this, your pledge, the pledge that many republicans have signed on to, opposes any and all efforts to increase marginal income tax rates and opposes any net reduction or elimination of deductions and credits unless matched for dollar by further reducing tax rates. closing loopholes and ending deductions would seem to increase the tax burden that americans are paying to the federal government. given that, do you support the proposal put forward by john boehner? >> well, because the proposal is significantly amorphous, you could get those revenues through economic growth and we don't really have things nailed down, i don't want to talk about a hypothetical, but there is a danger that when you put revenues on the table, even revenues through economic growth, if you grew at 4% a year, reagan levels, instead of 2%, french levels or obama levels, you would net $5 trillion in additional revenue to the government, you could pay down all of obama's
cliff deal. grover, the first question i have for you is this, your pledge, the pledge that many republicans have signed on to, opposes any and all efforts to increase marginal income tax rates and opposes any net reduction or elimination of deductions and credits unless matched for dollar by further reducing tax rates. closing loopholes and ending deductions would seem to increase the tax burden that americans are paying to the federal government. given that, do you support the proposal put...
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that were there when i was predz. >> with now break through today and the fiscal cliff negotiations, is this a starting point? "outfront" republican congressman james langford of oklahoma, incoming chairman of the republican policy committee, the fifth ranking position in the house gop leadership. good to see you, sir. appreciate you taking the time. what about this idea of raising taxes on everyone? the math actually in this case is much more promising. it works much better. >> right. i heard your lead-in on it, and you said this is a new idea floated by howard dean. ints a new idea. several democrats have floated that a while. the code word is going back to the clinton tax rates and talk about the clinton economy and we should go back to the clinton tax rates. what that means is all tax rates on all americans go back up because the tax rates were brought down in 2001 and 2003. so it's not new, and no, i don't support that. i don't think that's a great idea at all. it will slow down the economy. >> all right. the truth is when you look at economists' evaluations, it will slow down t
that were there when i was predz. >> with now break through today and the fiscal cliff negotiations, is this a starting point? "outfront" republican congressman james langford of oklahoma, incoming chairman of the republican policy committee, the fifth ranking position in the house gop leadership. good to see you, sir. appreciate you taking the time. what about this idea of raising taxes on everyone? the math actually in this case is much more promising. it works much better....
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before we get to all of that, the fiscal cliff. we start with president obama digging in his heels about raising taxes on the wealthiest. senior administration official telling "the wall street journal" there will be no new offers until republicans allow tax rates to go up on top earners. this morning, the president accusing the gop of brinksmanship while republican senator orrin hatch said democrats are asking for too much. >> it's unacceptable for some republicans in congress to hold middle class tax cuts hostage simply because they refuse to let tax rates go up on the weltiest americans. >> what he proposed this week was a classic bait and switch on the american people. a tax increase double the size of what he campaigned on. >> joining me now nbc white house news correspondent mike viqueira. what can you make of this? fiscal cliff talks are they a nonstarter? >> i tell you, you listen to everything that is being said publicly. you see the president there. it's clear that the election, yes, is over. but the campaign goes on here
before we get to all of that, the fiscal cliff. we start with president obama digging in his heels about raising taxes on the wealthiest. senior administration official telling "the wall street journal" there will be no new offers until republicans allow tax rates to go up on top earners. this morning, the president accusing the gop of brinksmanship while republican senator orrin hatch said democrats are asking for too much. >> it's unacceptable for some republicans in congress...
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well, the easiest way to end the uncertainty about the fiscal cliff and tax rates and their potential impact of the vast majority of americans as they go into this vital holiday shopping season that's pretty central to our economy is for us to pass that and say okay, that part of this is over. the $2,000 on average tax hike that most working families are facing, if we go over the cliff done, taken care of. now, let's work through the balance of increased revenue on the high income earners and spending cuts that we need to get done to achieve a roughly $4 trillion savings. >> bill: and closing loopholes and other issues. >> that's a difficult process. there's lots of detail to it. in my view, there's two bad outcomes here that are quite possible. first is we do nothing. which is -- something we seem to have shown some real capability of. but if we go over the if is cal cliff, which is really more of a slope than a cliff. it is not like y2k where january 1, everybody has a dramatic cuts in services and dramatic increases in taxes. that will smooth in over time. that will happen over som
well, the easiest way to end the uncertainty about the fiscal cliff and tax rates and their potential impact of the vast majority of americans as they go into this vital holiday shopping season that's pretty central to our economy is for us to pass that and say okay, that part of this is over. the $2,000 on average tax hike that most working families are facing, if we go over the cliff done, taken care of. now, let's work through the balance of increased revenue on the high income earners and...
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turn to the fiscal cliff, i know you don't want to get clinical or partisan, or even talk about this ridiculous phrase "fiscal cliff," just in your dealings with the financial issues for the last 30 or 40 years, what is your view about taxation, generally. doesn't america suffer when taxes are slightly higher in terms of economic prosperity? or is that just a bit of a myth? >> well, i think there are a lot of theories running around out there. and i have the formal education, and finance degree so i studied economics like a lot of us did. i was formally taught, the proper way is that way. that seems to be the direction of the obama administration, the idea to raise taxes. and the government control the reinvestment interest the economy. really, there is not much evidence that that has worked. it didn't work under obama or bush, even an argument it didn't work under fdr, which is where it came from. that probably world war ii bailed us out of the economic slump, probably called the great depression, rather than that. i am a sophisticated guy, i don't have a lot of sophisticated looks
turn to the fiscal cliff, i know you don't want to get clinical or partisan, or even talk about this ridiculous phrase "fiscal cliff," just in your dealings with the financial issues for the last 30 or 40 years, what is your view about taxation, generally. doesn't america suffer when taxes are slightly higher in terms of economic prosperity? or is that just a bit of a myth? >> well, i think there are a lot of theories running around out there. and i have the formal education,...
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. >> of course all of this negotiation around the fiscal cliff, the president actually indicated today that he might be president-electable. he says he's not necessarily looking for income tax rates as high as they were under president clinton. secretary geithner is going to meet with congressional leaders tomorrow. do you think they will demonstrating some wiggle room, as well? >> i personally don't think it's that big of a banner sign. if there was actually a movement toward a deal, i think you'd see president obama meeting with these leaders in congress as opposed to cabinet aids. i'm hearing democrats still pressing the case. they're still making the argument that they want to raise taxes on that small percentage of americans. the white house has not put forth any specifics. depending how the president secretary goes, there is miles of space in between the two sides on this one. >> all right. one of my favorite reporters juana summers with politico. thank you for joining us. >> up next, it has several layers. the story on the outside is far different than the inside. yes, as far as
. >> of course all of this negotiation around the fiscal cliff, the president actually indicated today that he might be president-electable. he says he's not necessarily looking for income tax rates as high as they were under president clinton. secretary geithner is going to meet with congressional leaders tomorrow. do you think they will demonstrating some wiggle room, as well? >> i personally don't think it's that big of a banner sign. if there was actually a movement toward a...
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he's taking his fiscal cliff case on the road. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. >>> just to be clear, i'm not going to sign any package that somehow prevents the top rate from going up for folks at the top 2%, but i do remain optimistic that we can get something done that is good for families like this one and that is good for the american economy. >> welcome back to "hardball." today president obama took his fiscal pitch outside the beltway visiting a middle class family in the virginia suburbs. the president's message is resonating with people across america. a new quinnipiac poll proves it. 53% trust president obama and the democrats more to handle the fiscal cliff negotiations. only 36% trust the "r"s in congress. joining me is nbc chief white house correspondent and political director and host of "the daily rundown," anything else you control around here? >> that's enough. >> and "the washington post's" chris cillizza. i think you've been reupped. you're all over the place. you're the greatest. the absolute
he's taking his fiscal cliff case on the road. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. >>> just to be clear, i'm not going to sign any package that somehow prevents the top rate from going up for folks at the top 2%, but i do remain optimistic that we can get something done that is good for families like this one and that is good for the american economy. >> welcome back to "hardball." today president obama took his fiscal pitch outside the beltway...
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we know we have a fiscal cliff, we know that we don't want to see tax rates go up for the middle class and yet the republicans say that they're going to hold up all those tax breaks for 98% of our people because they want to hold onto the tax breaks for billionaires and for millionaires. we had an election about that. people agree with us. and i suppose we're going to have to hear these speeches every day about how we're going to grow our way out of the deficits, we're going to grow our way out of the deficits, really. look what happened under george w. bush. he inherited surpluses, turned it into deficits as far as the eye can see with huge tax cuts to the millionaires and billionaires, huge. the very tax cuts our friends are defending right now. he did two wars on a credit card and we wound up in a mess. so we have to come together with the best ideas that we have, and i know we can reach agreement, but let us do the first step which is to take care of 98% of the people. the republicans want to have tax breaks for 100% of the people. we're saying can you take 98%? if i stopped you on
we know we have a fiscal cliff, we know that we don't want to see tax rates go up for the middle class and yet the republicans say that they're going to hold up all those tax breaks for 98% of our people because they want to hold onto the tax breaks for billionaires and for millionaires. we had an election about that. people agree with us. and i suppose we're going to have to hear these speeches every day about how we're going to grow our way out of the deficits, we're going to grow our way out...
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he says he cannot guarantee we will not go over the fiscal cliff. >> no, i cannot promise that. that is a decision that lies in the hands of the republicans that are now imposing increasing tax rates. stuart: okay. if the republicans do not agree to higher taxes on the rich, it is all there fault if we go over the cliff. got that. this is what john boehner had to say. >> the day after the election, i found the results. i went to the cameras and made it clear. the republicans were willing to put revenue on the table if there were serious spending cuts and reforms put in place. we have talked about it. the president and white house have three weeks. this is the best we've got? stuart: as of this monday morning, the white house wants the republicans, forces the republicans to agree to raise taxes. the republicans thus far seem to be saying we will cut deductions, but not raise tax rates. >> what is so flabbergasting to me is that geithner, you just heard him, he basically said if the republicans do not do what we put on the table, it is fall off theefiscal cliff and it is the repub
he says he cannot guarantee we will not go over the fiscal cliff. >> no, i cannot promise that. that is a decision that lies in the hands of the republicans that are now imposing increasing tax rates. stuart: okay. if the republicans do not agree to higher taxes on the rich, it is all there fault if we go over the cliff. got that. this is what john boehner had to say. >> the day after the election, i found the results. i went to the cameras and made it clear. the republicans were...
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stuart: the republicans submit their fiscal cliff solution. now, that plan put out by speaker boehner, includes 800 billion dollars in extra tax revenues and that would come from limiting deductions and not from higher tax rates. and there would also be 1.2 trillion dollars worth of spending cuts and the white house immediately dismissed that plan, saying, the lower tax rates for the rich and quote, fix the middle class with a bill. again, we come back to this. the main sticking point is the tax rate issue. the president insists more revenue comes from higher rates, not deduction limits. -pit's a standoff and it contins less than four weeks to go until the deadline. be careful what you say in a local police want a law, new law requiring that text messages be saved for two years. how do you feel about that? ever texted something you wish would go away right now? there is of course the privacy issue as well. well, here comes the judge. he will be new at 10 on this one. got it. shares of darden restaurants, they're down today and they're the comp
stuart: the republicans submit their fiscal cliff solution. now, that plan put out by speaker boehner, includes 800 billion dollars in extra tax revenues and that would come from limiting deductions and not from higher tax rates. and there would also be 1.2 trillion dollars worth of spending cuts and the white house immediately dismissed that plan, saying, the lower tax rates for the rich and quote, fix the middle class with a bill. again, we come back to this. the main sticking point is the...
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. >> if is the administration prepared too go over the fiscal cliff. >> absolutely. there is no prospect to an agreement that doesn't involve those rates going up on the top 2% of the wealthist, remember it's only 2%. >> he did not blink. that is the treasury secretary. do they talk like that? >> it's really unique. this treasury secretary is very loyal to this president, treasury secretaries are, but he is saying essentially that the tax rates going up are essential, that the money is not essential, that the dollar figure is not essential, that the rates going up are essential, and that's just interesting. going over the cliff comes with a lot of -- a lot of things that could affect the economy and the treasury secretary knows that. bill: 10% unemployment. tax rates for everybody going higher. what are you hearing on the house side? among the house republicans, whether or not they are behind the speaker, whether they are pulling away from him, where does that stand do you believe? >> reporter: you know, there are some on the house side that have a lot of concerns ab
. >> if is the administration prepared too go over the fiscal cliff. >> absolutely. there is no prospect to an agreement that doesn't involve those rates going up on the top 2% of the wealthist, remember it's only 2%. >> he did not blink. that is the treasury secretary. do they talk like that? >> it's really unique. this treasury secretary is very loyal to this president, treasury secretaries are, but he is saying essentially that the tax rates going up are essential,...
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cliff standoff. he put his foot down on what is negotiable and what is not. >> we have to say the rates on the top 2% go up. and we're not going to get a deal without it. understand the reason for that. it's not me being stubborn. it's not me being partisan. it's just a matter of math. i'm happy to entertain other ideas the republicans may present, but we are not going to cut our way to prosperity or cut our way out of the deficit problem we have. >> so, are we on the verge of something big, something that could really change our politics? joining me now, senator barbara boxer, democrat from california and whip of the senate. thank you for being on the show. >> i love being on your show. thank you. >> if the gop agrees to tax increases, how important might that be in terms of showing they actually are capable of working with the president? >> you know, the way they raised the question, if they agree to tax increases, they claim they're willing to do these loop-hole closers but the difference here is
cliff standoff. he put his foot down on what is negotiable and what is not. >> we have to say the rates on the top 2% go up. and we're not going to get a deal without it. understand the reason for that. it's not me being stubborn. it's not me being partisan. it's just a matter of math. i'm happy to entertain other ideas the republicans may present, but we are not going to cut our way to prosperity or cut our way out of the deficit problem we have. >> so, are we on the verge of...
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. >> reporter: and of course, going off the so-called fiscal cliff means a tax hike for everybody who does have a job. treasury secretary timothy geithner said the president is absolutely welling to go off the cliff unless republicans agree to raise tax rates. >> there is no prospect for an agreement that doesn't involve the rates going up on the top 2% of the wealthiest. only 2%. >> reporter: on that no progress. >> where are the specifics? where are the discussions? nothing is going on. >> reporter: there have been no real talks between the white house and republicans for a week, but the president and the speaker of the house spoke via telephone. neither side would give any details about what was said. the stock market closed higher with traders optimistic a deal will be reached. jonathan karl, abc new, washington. >>> amazing a phone call can calm the markets. impressive here. what i thought was interesting. we talked how the house is scheduled to go on vacation the 14th of the month. so actually there is a tighter deadline than the 31st. apparently, house majority leader eric kant
. >> reporter: and of course, going off the so-called fiscal cliff means a tax hike for everybody who does have a job. treasury secretary timothy geithner said the president is absolutely welling to go off the cliff unless republicans agree to raise tax rates. >> there is no prospect for an agreement that doesn't involve the rates going up on the top 2% of the wealthiest. only 2%. >> reporter: on that no progress. >> where are the specifics? where are the discussions?...
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raise tax rates on the top 2%. republicans say the tax hikes would only hurt job creation. but in arlington, virginia, vice president biden said today's jobs report shows the economy is turning a corner, so it's critical to get a deal. >> there is a sense... there is a sense that if we can reach an- - act like adults and reach an agreement here on the fiscal cliff, the upside is much higher even than the downside is if we don't. >> sreenivasan: biden said the president is willing to consider what he called any serious offer. aides for the two sides were expected to continue talking, through the weekend. wall street was mostly higher on the news from november's jobs report. the dow jones industrial average gained 81 points to close at 13,155. the nasdaq was hurt by another sell-off in apple stock, and fell 11 points to close at 2,978. for the week, the dow gained 1%. the nasdaq lost 1%. this was another tense day across egypt, as a political crisis deepened. tonight, thousands of protesters pushed past army and poli
raise tax rates on the top 2%. republicans say the tax hikes would only hurt job creation. but in arlington, virginia, vice president biden said today's jobs report shows the economy is turning a corner, so it's critical to get a deal. >> there is a sense... there is a sense that if we can reach an- - act like adults and reach an agreement here on the fiscal cliff, the upside is much higher even than the downside is if we don't. >> sreenivasan: biden said the president is willing to...
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he's got to get it done -- >> he's got to get it done -- >> you go off that fiscal cliff you're part of the chaos and you're in the midst of the chaos. >> however he gets there, he will get there. >> okay captain ahab. >> thank you, michael and steven. . i'm where michael tonight. drives people crazy. a broken clock is right twice a day. up next, the latest from sarah palin who is never, ever right! she says the president is turning the nation commie. wait until you hear her. she's still at it and totally irrelevant. this is "hardball," the place for politics. two years ago, the people of bp made a commitment to the gulf. bp has paid over twenty-three billion dollars to help those affected and to cover cleanup costs. today, the beaches and gulf are open, and many areas are reporting their best tourism seasons in years. and bp's also committed to america. we support nearly 250,000 jobs and invest more here than anywhere else. we're working to fuel america for generations to come. our commitment has never been stronger. look this isn't my first christmas. these deals all seem great at
he's got to get it done -- >> he's got to get it done -- >> you go off that fiscal cliff you're part of the chaos and you're in the midst of the chaos. >> however he gets there, he will get there. >> okay captain ahab. >> thank you, michael and steven. . i'm where michael tonight. drives people crazy. a broken clock is right twice a day. up next, the latest from sarah palin who is never, ever right! she says the president is turning the nation commie. wait until...
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cliff, that difference between tax rates for the wealthiest americans. and what house democrats announced they're going to try to do is an end run around the house gop to try to file a petition in order to try to push a vote on the house floor to just raise taxes -- excuse me, to just extend the bush-era tax rates for middle class americans. but to do that, as you know, they need 218 votes and there's still a very sizable republican majority in the house. it will be difficult for democrats to do that. >> absolutely. and that proposal to take away what has been historically a congressional prerogative was a little bit surprising even to people who have been reading about this stuff for years. is it true though, dana, as it has been in past years that both sides at least have to show their bases that they're fighting the good fight and that's part of what's going on here? >> reporter: absolutely. there's no question about it. what i mention in the piece really is a real phenomenon here when it comes to the feeling among congressional democrats that they ar
cliff, that difference between tax rates for the wealthiest americans. and what house democrats announced they're going to try to do is an end run around the house gop to try to file a petition in order to try to push a vote on the house floor to just raise taxes -- excuse me, to just extend the bush-era tax rates for middle class americans. but to do that, as you know, they need 218 votes and there's still a very sizable republican majority in the house. it will be difficult for democrats to...
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i think that fiscal cliff is just a big red herring. your district has the shortest life span in the country for women. the infant mortalithighest infay rate in the country. we follow mississippi. i think that is where you are leading the country. if the people of the united states want to see where you and the republican party -- come and look at your district. guest: i would be delighted to have people come and look at my district and then it is 14,000 farms and ranches with two military installations. 5 colleges and universities. 11 indian tribes. the best college football team in america. it is a very special place. i would argue with your statistics. i just won reelection with 68% of the vote. having said all that, the idea that the paul ryan budget is about getting rid of social programs is ntot so. it is about saving them. these programs are going bankrupt. all are going to have to be reformed. if the president gets every tax increase he is asking for, let's just assume that he did, it would not come close to solving the budgetar
i think that fiscal cliff is just a big red herring. your district has the shortest life span in the country for women. the infant mortalithighest infay rate in the country. we follow mississippi. i think that is where you are leading the country. if the people of the united states want to see where you and the republican party -- come and look at your district. guest: i would be delighted to have people come and look at my district and then it is 14,000 farms and ranches with two military...
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he's got to get it done -- >> he's got to get it done -- >> you go off that fiscal cliff, you're part of the chaos and you're in the midst of the chaos. >> however he gets there, he will get there. >> okay, captain ahab. thank you, michael steele and steven mcmahon. i'm with michael tonight. drives people crazy. a broken clock is right twice a day. >>> up next, the latest from sarah palin who is never, ever right! she says the president is turning the nation commie. wait until you hear her. she's still at it and totally irrelevant. this is "hardball," the place for politics. [ thunder crashes] [ female announcer ] some people like to pretend a flood could never happen to them. and that their homeowners insurance protects them. [ thunder crashes ] it doesn't. stop pretending. only flood insurance covers floods. ♪ visit floodsmart.gov/pretend to learn your risk. >>> back to "hardball." in the "sideshow," a protest takes a turn for the better. it started out when ohio senator rob portman took to a stage at a fix the debt conference in washington today. a group of protesters pre-empted
he's got to get it done -- >> he's got to get it done -- >> you go off that fiscal cliff, you're part of the chaos and you're in the midst of the chaos. >> however he gets there, he will get there. >> okay, captain ahab. thank you, michael steele and steven mcmahon. i'm with michael tonight. drives people crazy. a broken clock is right twice a day. >>> up next, the latest from sarah palin who is never, ever right! she says the president is turning the nation...
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the fiscal cliff. if we go off the cliff tax rates on dividends could go from 15% to more than 43%. companies are racing to beat the tax hikes by paying dividends before december 31st and some of the biggest beneficiaries, both insiders and ceos. mickey arison is getting $89 million from carnival giving him a potential tax savings. and larry elison is getting savings around $56 million. thomas frist at hca is getting around $350 million, saving him $100 million. and kkr and bain capital will get a big piece of the dividends. the king of all dividends is sheldon adelson who gets $1.2 billion from sands corp dividend and his tax savings alone could be $340 million. all shareholders benefit from dividends and many of the owners and ceos have recused themselves from the dividend votes, but these companies tend to have higher insider ownership. the average insider ownership of these dividenders is around 27%. it all shows that just the threat of higher taxes is causing companies and people to take next year's income today when they can. >> yeah. it's interesting. we were talking about th
the fiscal cliff. if we go off the cliff tax rates on dividends could go from 15% to more than 43%. companies are racing to beat the tax hikes by paying dividends before december 31st and some of the biggest beneficiaries, both insiders and ceos. mickey arison is getting $89 million from carnival giving him a potential tax savings. and larry elison is getting savings around $56 million. thomas frist at hca is getting around $350 million, saving him $100 million. and kkr and bain capital will...
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look, i think it hurts everybody politically if we go over the fiscal cliff. republicans will pay a larger price. it's about making sure they don't drive themselves off a middle class cliff by digging their heels into lower rates. actual hadly have lower rates for the wealthy than the wealt >> tripp, you work for a group -- you're saying, hey, we stand for principle but you're not there to win elections. you're there to win policy fights. >> right. >> the fact is, if republicans could be -- some concern is republicans pulling away from the vote. >> hopefully good policy makes good politics. in this case, if we can see the tax issue, that's not going to fix the problem. the drivers of the debt is spending but also is is entitlement and boehner punting, capitulated to the white house -- >> capitulation on the white house doesn't even -- >> that's a pretty -- >> well, we're all going to put our heads in the sand and say that entitlement are not the drivers of the deficit. >> you don't think he put enough detail on the entitlements? >> no. >> we'll ask him that wh
look, i think it hurts everybody politically if we go over the fiscal cliff. republicans will pay a larger price. it's about making sure they don't drive themselves off a middle class cliff by digging their heels into lower rates. actual hadly have lower rates for the wealthy than the wealt >> tripp, you work for a group -- you're saying, hey, we stand for principle but you're not there to win elections. you're there to win policy fights. >> right. >> the fact is, if...
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we'll go off the fiscal cliff, down the fiscal slope. yes i think it will happen because it is the one way republicans can, without violating the pledge, and offending the grand inquisitor grover norquist, it's the one way they can let this happen. >> and, in fact, you know, what could happen, you can imagine a scenario where you go off the cliff on taxes, rates go up for everybody, you then vote to restore the rates for the vast majority of taxpayers, 98%, and further it is even conceivable you negotiate down the top rates in the level under bill clinton a little bit by putting in the pot offsetting deductions for credits which would allow republicans to claim some sort of victory as well. that could be a scenario where you have a consensus on the tax run. >> let's run all of this by representative xavier becerra of california. he's joining us now. nice to see you, sir 367 appreciate your time. what is really the white house dismiss kind of out of hand i mean i don't have the exact number of minutes that they had this republican proposa
we'll go off the fiscal cliff, down the fiscal slope. yes i think it will happen because it is the one way republicans can, without violating the pledge, and offending the grand inquisitor grover norquist, it's the one way they can let this happen. >> and, in fact, you know, what could happen, you can imagine a scenario where you go off the cliff on taxes, rates go up for everybody, you then vote to restore the rates for the vast majority of taxpayers, 98%, and further it is even...
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he's got to get it done -- >> he's got to get it done -- >> you go off that fiscal cliff, you're part of the chaos and you're in the midst of the chaos. >> however he gets there, he will get there. >> okay, captain ahab. thank you, michael steele and steven mcmahon. i'm with michael tonight. drives people crazy. a broken clock is right twice a day. >>> up next, the latest from sarah palin who is never, ever right! she says the president is turning the nation commie. wait until you hear her. she's still at it and totally irrelevant. this is "hardball," the place for politics. meet the 5-passenger ford c-max hybrid. when you're carrying a lot of weight, c-max has a nice little trait, you see, c-max helps you load your freight, with its foot-activated lift gate. but that's not all you'll see, cause c-max also beats prius v, with better mpg. say hi to the all-new 47 combined mpg c-max hybrid. this reduced sodium soup says it may help lower cholesterol, how does it work? you just have to eat it as part of your heart healthy diet. step 1. eat the soup. all those veggies and beans, that's wh
he's got to get it done -- >> he's got to get it done -- >> you go off that fiscal cliff, you're part of the chaos and you're in the midst of the chaos. >> however he gets there, he will get there. >> okay, captain ahab. thank you, michael steele and steven mcmahon. i'm with michael tonight. drives people crazy. a broken clock is right twice a day. >>> up next, the latest from sarah palin who is never, ever right! she says the president is turning the nation...
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fiscal cliff? guest: if we go off the cliff, the rate will go up to 39.6%. the low bracket will go away and the lowest tax bracket will be 15% if we go off the cliff. 15% to 39.6% if we go off the cliff. caller: what about the other rates? host: we have a question on twitter. guest: you don't pay taxes on losses. a you're making profits and picture up over $250,000, that could result in a tax increase that kicks you over $250,000. caller: we need jobs in this country. i hear all this money being talked. the average worker -- i am lucky i get 30 hours. they're cutting down to 20 hours at wal-mart. i had a good manager. i notice a woman comes in. she says we can get anybody to work. you talk about the tax credits. most of us have no chance of getting anything like that. this is too low republicans and democrats. fascism and communism, it was always party first. that's what our country has come to. we have to come together as true conservatives and true democrats and come together. guest: one of the b
fiscal cliff? guest: if we go off the cliff, the rate will go up to 39.6%. the low bracket will go away and the lowest tax bracket will be 15% if we go off the cliff. 15% to 39.6% if we go off the cliff. caller: what about the other rates? host: we have a question on twitter. guest: you don't pay taxes on losses. a you're making profits and picture up over $250,000, that could result in a tax increase that kicks you over $250,000. caller: we need jobs in this country. i hear all this money...
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cliff unless both sides agree to raise rates on the wealthiest. that means raise tax rates for top earners. the reason that this is news is because there's been discussion publicly that perhaps they could find a rev new agreement where it would just involve capping deductions or maybe they could get to revenue just through tax reform, and with this piece of detail from that phone call yesterday, it would seem that the democrats, the president personally, is drawing a line saying those other ways are not enough. his campaign message that the top earners have to pay more, he is sticking to that line many these negotiations. >> jess, do we know how the republicans responded to this red line? >> well, speaker boehner was frustrated, wrovl, and came out with -- in his press conference today basically accusing the president of not leading on the issue. both sides are calling for the white house to come forward with spending cuts first, tell us where you are going to cut spending, before we, the republicans, will say whether we'll go along with you on ta
cliff unless both sides agree to raise rates on the wealthiest. that means raise tax rates for top earners. the reason that this is news is because there's been discussion publicly that perhaps they could find a rev new agreement where it would just involve capping deductions or maybe they could get to revenue just through tax reform, and with this piece of detail from that phone call yesterday, it would seem that the democrats, the president personally, is drawing a line saying those other...
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is the administration prepared to go over the fiscal cliff? >> oh, absolutely. again, there's no prospect for an agreement that doesn't involve those rates going up on the top 2% of the wealthiest americans -- rr s -- rrm, it'emy 2%, it can't be solved. i think there's broad recognition of that reality now. >> okay, julia. see, this is the problem with men. on sunday morning geithner went on "meet the press" like they're going to cave. >> that's not good tactics for negotiations. >> get him out and get some women -- the congresswoman we had on the other day, the republican congresswoman, mcmorris rogers. sorry about that, really tired, she's fantastic. get her at the table more. get more women to the table because that's just not the way to negotiate. i agree with the administration's position on this. >> the treasury secretary yesterday goes oh, yeah. we can go over the fiscal cliff. >> don't you think that's going to make everybody feel really good, the markets. >> the republicans are doing the same thing. somebody has to be better. >> but the republicans don'
is the administration prepared to go over the fiscal cliff? >> oh, absolutely. again, there's no prospect for an agreement that doesn't involve those rates going up on the top 2% of the wealthiest americans -- rr s -- rrm, it'emy 2%, it can't be solved. i think there's broad recognition of that reality now. >> okay, julia. see, this is the problem with men. on sunday morning geithner went on "meet the press" like they're going to cave. >> that's not good tactics for...
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we have watched food statches go up and disability claims go up dramatically and looking at the fiscal cliff and talking about raising taxes that will not put a dent in the spending, so what is the answer? >> gretchen: the suggestion i make let's go back to the programs we had five or six years ago. there was a safety net five or six years ago. if you lost your job in 2006, you got some help but not the type of help people have got since then. we go back to that situation and maybe we have a hope much having a labor market go back to the way it was five or six years ago. >> gretchen: professor which politician, republican or democrat is going to be doing what you just said? >> not the ones from my district. >> gretchen: i mean, they are in eight bind are they not? republicans and democrats are in a bind. will be the one to come to the podium and say let's stop those unemployment benefits. >> it is a bind and the europeans worked it out before . they found helping for the unemployed is politically popular and economically damaging and they did it for decade upon decade and continue to d
we have watched food statches go up and disability claims go up dramatically and looking at the fiscal cliff and talking about raising taxes that will not put a dent in the spending, so what is the answer? >> gretchen: the suggestion i make let's go back to the programs we had five or six years ago. there was a safety net five or six years ago. if you lost your job in 2006, you got some help but not the type of help people have got since then. we go back to that situation and maybe we...
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cliff. that would allow tax rates to rise on everybody. then congress could come back after the new year and cut taxes on everyone but the wealthy. nbc's mike viqueira has the story. >> reporter: administration optimism for a deal. but only if republicans give in on raising rates for the wealthy. >> you think we'll get a deal by the end of the year? >> i do. the only thing that stands in the way of a deal right now is if a group of republican members decide they're going to block the deal because they want to extend tax cuts. we can't afford for the wealthiest 2% of americans. >> reporter: john boehner dug in. no rate rises on anyone. >> the president's idea of a negotiation is roll over and do what i ask. >> reporter: the opening bid brought the gop leaders by geithner is a nonstarter. >> i was flabbergasted. i looked at him and said, you can't be serious. >> reporter: included in the offer, $1.6 trillion in new revenue, twice what was on the table in last year's failed grand bargain, and $
cliff. that would allow tax rates to rise on everybody. then congress could come back after the new year and cut taxes on everyone but the wealthy. nbc's mike viqueira has the story. >> reporter: administration optimism for a deal. but only if republicans give in on raising rates for the wealthy. >> you think we'll get a deal by the end of the year? >> i do. the only thing that stands in the way of a deal right now is if a group of republican members decide they're going to...
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the biggest issue that's causing the fiscal cliff is the tax rates going up on the middle class. especially in this time now when we're getting out of this recession. we're seeing some robust growth. we want the christmas sales to be good. if the middle class knew that they're going to keep their tax cut, it would put a smile on everybody's face. and both parties can take credit for it. why won't they do it? there's only one answer. they're obsessed with protecting billionaires and millionaires. it's a sad state of affairs. >> one thing that we've seen in the days leading up, at least through this week, that there has been optimism from both sides expressed by speaker boehner, also by the president, and also republican tom cole, congre congressman, seem to be on board. now we have conservatives like charles krauthammer putting out their pieces saying let's go over the fiscal cliff, let the president do this. then john cornyn, republican from texas, saying apparently the president wants us to go over the fiscal cliff. this is serious business, demanding higher taxes, more stimulus
the biggest issue that's causing the fiscal cliff is the tax rates going up on the middle class. especially in this time now when we're getting out of this recession. we're seeing some robust growth. we want the christmas sales to be good. if the middle class knew that they're going to keep their tax cut, it would put a smile on everybody's face. and both parties can take credit for it. why won't they do it? there's only one answer. they're obsessed with protecting billionaires and...